Selectivity of government decisions is the biggest challenge today

Author : News Agency

Respondent : Ihor Umansky

Source : 112 Ukraine

Find out an exclusive interview with ex-Minister of Finance Mr. Ihor Umansky
23:32, 26 April 2021

ex-Minister of Finance Mr. Ihor Umansky
Press-service of the Cabinet of Ministers

How was your drive there?

I can't understand why there are such traffic jams during the day. Why are all people not at work? True, now that transport restrictions have been introduced, everyone who has even forgotten how to drive there has left the garages.

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I think that they are all going to work. I saw one of the restaurants where there were two banquets: for 70 and for 90 people. Is this still called a lockdown?

Selectivity of government decisions is the biggest challenge today. When there are restrictions, rules, but not for everyone. When a violation is recorded, but not for everyone, it annoys people the most. There are some rules, what requirements, but everything is possible for friends. And for the rest, it is the law.

People already do not live easy, and in addition to all the problems, they have another problem - how to get around quarantine restrictions. People do not fulfill them, but learn to bypass them. They have not yet introduced special passes to the metro, but they were already on sale at OLX. How can this be?

In fact, because of this hysteria, because of the stirring up of panic (this is, of course, a certain tool for managing human consciousness, the masses around the world), it is these double standards that very often lead to the redistribution of property. Redistribution of markets, including vegetables and fruits. We close markets, but supermarkets are open.

Playing along with the owners, who, probably, share correctly.

Absolutely. Therefore, there are not so many of these owners and it is easier to negotiate with them. That is, there is a concentration of interest.

What does it look like? How does it work? Is there some kind of "overseer" who gathers the owners of the networks?

Any power is represented by people who have gone through certain political processes - selection. These are mainly party projects. As a result, the concentration of business interests, which are realized through such parties. This is a model for the existence of power in our country. We are told that there are three main branches of government: legislative, executive, judicial. And the media is the fourth estate. There should be a balance in the triangle of branches of power: someone sets the rules, someone monitors their implementation, someone implements them. In fact, in the model in which we live, what is happening? We have chosen the parliament, which people go to through party projects, and to enter the parliament to pass places, people pay money.

I know people who have not paid money. But at the moment these people are almost in opposition to this party force, because they went for one thing, but saw that the party force is doing something completely different.

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There are people who have their own personal rating, recognition, and they, like a locomotive, pull this project. The advertising campaign of these projects is based on them because it is necessary to win at the expense of something. Of course, such people, on the contrary, are invited to be this locomotive. This parliament with these figures is a kind of unique situation that has developed once. Before that, this has not happened and after that this will not happen. The established branch of government, the parliament appoints the executive branch. And also the president. And in this context, it is generally not clear to which branch of government he belongs. In different periods of time, judges were appointed in different ways, but in any case, this is a continuation of the representatives of this authority. There is a systemic problem that we have inherent in the constitutional model: we have no counterbalances and checks.

When I ask people why our channels were closed, they answer me because toxic people came to us. My question is, why do toxic people go to the channels and not go to jail? If Larry King interviewed Osama bin Laden, this does not mean that Larry King automatically became an international terrorist. If Medvedchuk went to Putin, I know that a huge part of the country did not like it, but if we start buying electricity from the aggressor state...

Yes, go to any supermarket and look at the products.

Isn't it double standards? What is the president with us now? As for me, now we have almost some kind of caliphate. I have never seen such maximum power concentrated in one hand.

No one had such a situation as it is now - not a single president. When you have a mono-majority in the Verkhovna Rada, you have formed a government, the Constitutional Court is blocked, and there are still attempts to subjugate the judiciary, which already listens to what Bankova said ... There is no Constitution - there are no checks and balances in power. Moreover, in two years of President Zelensky, we have two governments and at least six months of talks that this government is about to leave. But people did not choose Shmyhal or Honcharuk, did not give them powers, because according to the Constitution we have more powers for the Prime Minister. Who are these people? Where did they come from? People have chosen Zelensky and want to understand who to ask? Because we have a division of the center, where there is authority and where there is responsibility. Lack of accountability often leads to the kind of impunity we see.

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If I were in the president's place, the only thought that would be in my head now is to run. And where to run? I think Antarctica in a penguin costume. I don't see any other place.

In fairy tales, the main character went through fire, water, and copper pipes. The hardest test is copper pipes. Now there are a lot of people in power who have no experience with copper pipes and have no responsibility. When a person has passed all the steps, he knows how the system works. If you had the strength to get up, moving on is an experience. And then, making some decisions, you will understand for sure that sooner or later you will leave this office. The Chinese had an inscription in the office of any official: "It will not always be this way." That is, one day you will leave this office and you will no longer be the power, they may ask you, and very harshly. That exit from the government in 2010 - many members of the government were then imprisoned. When I first came for interrogation, I was shown a list of five people who were to be imprisoned. I was also there. This was literally a few months after our government was fired.

Can you find out about the other four?

They were jailed – Makarenko, Didenko, but that is not the point. And the fact is that those people who have come today do not know what responsibility is, because they have never been responsible for the decisions made at the state level. None of them have experience of either government administration or work with such large structures. As a result, the decisions they make, they make without realizing that this will not always be the case.

 When they used the "distraction" - the Kharkiv accords... You can't jail anyone for collegial decisions, especially for a collegial decision of the Verkhovna Rada. But people were distracted from the price tags in the stores.

From tariffs, from lack of work.

ex-Minister of Finance Mr. Ihor Umansky
Press-service of the Cabinet of Ministers

In terms of videos that distract people's attention, we are "ahead of the rest." There is no fear, but the instinct of self-preservation should work?

The instinct of self-preservation works on reflexes. Someone else's experience does not teach anyone - everyone must go through their own rake. Another thing is that one, stepping on this rake, will think for the second time whether to do it or not, while someone rushes and rushes over them. You climb into the outlet and do not know that there you can be shocked, because even if they tell you about it, then "well, yes, so what?" You have to get this experience, and you practice this reflection in many issues. In order for you to have fear of some decisions, you must realize that when you make such decisions, there will be consequences. Someone's experience, Tymoshenko who served in prison, the same Yanukovych who is hiding, is someone's experience. When there are copper pipes, there is a detachment from reality. Parkinson's law works: an organization in which there are more than 400 people does not need to communicate with the outside world. That is, they live on their own, and what happens outside, they see exclusively in the picture on TV. And if someone turns out to be uncomfortable in this environment - immediately away.

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Very little new is being done. In fact, everything that has been inherited from the Soviet Union is "used".

Not only, but mostly. Last year, our investment fell by 40%. That is, our level of investment last year was lower than in 2014 when we started hostilities in Donbas when Crimea was annexed when a change of power took place as a result of the revolution. Three such huge events, but the investment level was higher than last year. This is a very bad signal - if you do not have investments in fixed assets, that is, not speculative capital that we have comes to the foreign exchange market or the government bonds market, you understand that you are not laying the potential for growth, for new jobs, already in the medium term. perspective. Today it happened because, on the one hand, there was such a wave of upsurge and faith in a miracle, in a messiah, and then they saw what was really happening. But in fact, another wave of property redistribution has begun. But given the concentration of power, and even Yanukovych had certain restraints, today they are not. And the investor voted with his feet - he left here. What is happening here is the absence of rules, legal nihilism.

Two weeks ago, Pfizer could have been bought for $ 2,000, but now I was told that they would find it for 1,800.

And it costs less than $ 20. Races have begun, who will be able to better master these funds. And the road builders won the race. As a result, the lion's share of the money that was supposed to go to support medicine and the economy was rolled into the asphalt. Probably because we have a "unique" asphalt: if you get sick, you can apply to this asphalt - and you will recover. Probably, such was the logic of the people who made decisions to use funds instead of medicine for rolling into the asphalt. And there is no higher mathematics - there are guys with arithmetic. They just go and inflate the price. For all. We have the dirtiest VAT in the public sector. At the entrance, we have the materials from which the roads are built. These are tangerines, bananas, apples, clothes, shoes.

We say that a huge amount of funds has been lost in Naftogaz of Ukraine, but we are told that we are the "hand of the Kremlin."

This is a very convenient stamp. When I was not heard in the offices, I began to publicly talk about the twists and those schemes at the customs. Submitted materials to law enforcement agencies. Some law enforcement officials, including the judiciary, have become indecently enriched. I joked that according to the law - 10%.

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You were born in Prypyat. At the age of 11, you were allowed to take documents, money, clothes, which you then had to burn, and go into the void. What has been postponed to you since that moment?

In fact, you are losing your homeland. Many settlers from Donbas understand this. Some of them found themselves in the same position, with the difference that they could at least take something out. We were left without anything and went to my mother's parents. There I graduated from school, and then we were given an apartment in Troyeshchyna and we moved there. This is the difference with the displaced people now, that then housing was given to everyone who was resettled, who had housing in the territory from which he was evacuated. Not immediately, but they gave it, and we did not stay on the street. Then our teacher from Pripyat gathered the children from Pripyat into one class, and my future wife and I were in the same class.

Now the issue of a war squeezes the covid issue. Do you feel it is approaching a hot phase?

The hot phase is likely to happen somehow. But I don't believe in a full-scale war. Putin cannot help but realize that they can quickly capture Kyiv, but not hold it.

Do you believe in the future of this state? What would you like to wish people?

I certainly do. First of all, health, self-confidence. Any state, nation is based on a person, on his happiness, on his condition. If there are rich people, there will be a rich country.

Thank you.

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