West cautious about Russia because of nuclear power. But this nuclear power is bluff

Author : GORDON

Respondent : Viktor Suvorov

Source :

Former resident of the Soviet intelligence office in Geneva, writer Viktor Suvorov, in an interview to 112 Ukraine told who should celebrate the victory in the Second World War, how he estimates the problems of Russia and the fate of Crimea and Donbas
23:17, 4 July 2017

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112 Agency

The Gordon show is on air, and today my guest is the former resident of the USSR Chief intelligence office in Geneva, the famous writer Viktor Suvorov.

- Good evening. In 1978, you, an intelligence officer in Geneva, fled to the UK and became a world-famous writer. Do you miss your intelligence work?

- Writing and intelligence are related professions. The historian is a scout of the past. I kind of continue my work. And so I don’t miss it.

- When you were an acting secret service agent, could you recruit anyone?

-By no means. It's very hard work. One recruitment is already a very big achievement. In the intelligence office there was an unspoken rule: if you recruited someone – you are "our guy." If you did not recruit anyone, then you are not considered as a person.

- All these years, the British intelligence services are supplying you with materials for books?

- What for? The fact is that all the materials that I fill my books with are open sources. Why should British Intelligence supply me with Zhukov's memoirs? All this is open, accessible to every educated person who can read. Here a public opinion poll was conducted, about who is the greatest politician of the twentieth century. The English say that Churchill is. And if you open my books, you’ll find out that he is a big fool. Comrade Stalin did everything he wanted with British and American leaders. He is a big criminal, and they either did not understand this, or danced to his tune. So what I'm writing is against the British official version of the war. They all really do not like it.

- When should we celebrate Victory Day and what kind of holiday is it?

- I have a book named "Shadow of Victory". I do not think there was a victory. Look at Germany now, and compare to how an ordinary person lives in Russia, in Ukraine. I think that the Germans now have more reasons to celebrate this day as a victory. This is a great European power, and we somehow lagged behind them a little. I believe that there was no victory, and I don’t celebrate the day of victory.

- In the book "Icebreaker" you justified with figures and facts that it was Stalin who wanted to attack Hitler, and Hitler just beat him, but the cleverest people I talked to say that this is nonsense.

- My life principle is never to argue with anyone. Whoever has read my books can agree with me that I do not impose my opinion on anyone. Normal, intelligent people, after reading the book, agree with me. I do not impose my opinion on anyone; I do not draw conclusions anywhere. I just present the facts to you.

- It turns out that Hitler just outwitted Stalin?

- He did not outwit, but just got ahead of him. The idea of Stalin was that Hitler crushed Europe and went on to fight on the British islands and in Africa, where he really fought. And at this time, 11 European states would be waiting for release. And there will come a "liberator", who has 24-26 thousand tanks. Hitler had 3 thousand obsolete vehicles, and we had 24 thousand. And Hitler leaves the continent and proceeds to the UK. So how not to take advantage of this situation! And people ask: w17ell, come on, what about America? In April 1941, construction of factories for assembling military vehicles for the USSR began in Iran. The Americans supported all this. 

-This explains the case when Stalin disappeared from the Kremlin for three days, and his comrades-in-arms came to him to ask to lead resistance against Hitler, and he thought they had come to arrest him.

- Stalin believed that the war was lost (he correctly believed, and I think so). All of Stalin's life is first the seizure of power, the strengthening of power, and then collectivization, to rip the bread from the peasant for free and drive him abroad to build military factories. Industrialization – it was invented for the production of tanks. Stalin built many tanks, aircraft. More than any country in the world. The most powerful submarine fleet. When there was no Hitler, Stalin created such a monstrous machine only in order to crush Europe with Hitler's hands, and then strike Hitler's back. When all this collapsed, Stalin was in a situation when he realized that his dream was broken: he lost his life, lost the war.

- You said that Stalin and Hitler are the "twin brothers." Why?

- They both built socialism." One party, the rest should be in prison. Stalin has the GULAG, Hitler has Buchenwald. One has the NKVD, another - SS. Stalin and Hitler have red flags. Both have a mustache. Only Stalin was a bit more cunning than Hitler.

- In your opinion, is Stalin great?

- Yes, he is a great man. In addition, he was endowed with an amazing sense of humor. For me, looking at Stalin is like looking at a tiger in a cage. For me, he is a great criminal, but, of course, the greatest statesman. I admire this person in my books.

- Was Zhukov really a great marshal and commander?

- This is a very dangerous myth. Zhukov was never a commander. Stalin had a division of labor. The thinking man was the Soviet marshal Vasilevsky, who made all plans, prepared all this. Zhukov was one to rush along the front-lines and make those plans that someone created real. He pushed the masses to death in order to fulfill a plan drawn up by someone. Zhukov himself is the culprit of the most terrible military catastrophe in the world. Stalin appointed him Chief of the General Staff 13.02. 41, he was preparing plans for war. After that, the most terrible catastrophe in the world military history broke out: such a number of tanks, 4 million people fell into German captivity. And the General Staff is the brain of the army, and Zhukov is the boss. Who said that he is a great commander, if such a severe catastrophe was his fault?

- Putin said that the Soviet Union would have defeated the Germans without Ukraine. Without the US and Britain, too?

- This is nonsense, which is absolutely impossible to comment on. The help of America was 400 thousand cars. The Soviet Union produced tanks, and, in principle, did not produce cars. America, already was aware of Stalin's plans, already was preparing to help him, including, it gave 100 thousand "Studebakers" - the best military vehicles in the world – gave for free. Behind the tank there must be cars that carry diesel for it, spare parts, infantry must go, artillery must follow. And the main artillery carrier is the American Studebaker. Without 400,000 American cars, victory would not be possible categorically. And the fact that without the Ukrainians Soviet Union would have won, is a great stupidity.

Related: Russian police detain DPR militant in occupied Crimea

- Is Russia a country of myths?

- Yes. The victory in the so-called Second World War is not a victory. The country suffered such losses that it is still falling into a demographic hole. And where is this "great victorious" country, the USSR? There is no Soviet Union, it disintegrated.

 - Is it possible to reconcile the World War II veterans with Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) veterans?

- Absolutely not! And this stupidity is not necessary.

- What would you say to people who are nostalgic for the Soviet Union today?

- We remember the time when Soviet authorities  told us about the bright tomorrow. I was a guard officer, I received 185 rubles - a lot of money. I spent my time with my soldiers, but I did not have a watch. I had money, but no watch. Who did not live there, cannot imagine this. Then we were told about "bright future," and now – about "bright past."

- What future awaits Russia?

- Disintegration. The Far East is now completely Chinese. They are already in Transbaikal territory. But the Moscow authorities support this occupation. If they once came there, then they will never leave. There was a great socialist camp, and it crumbled, the USSR crumbled. This is a trend. After all, after the collapse of the socialist camp, the Soviet Union did nothing to stop the collapse. The decay continues.

- Why does Russia hate the West, while Russian leaders enjoy all the blessings of the "damned" Western civilization?

- In London, the best areas are completely occupied by people who now rule Russia. The two richest yachts of the world belong to the Russian oligarchs. So it’s very "bad" there for them. Their suitcases have long been ready to escape to Western countries.

- Trump's presidency - is it a plus for Ukraine or for Russia?

- I would not put this in question. Ukraine has tremendous potential and can become a great power of the class of Germany, France (by territory, by population, by scientific, by agricultural potential). So why should we look beyond the ocean if we know that Ukraine can be a self-sufficient prosperous state. Let's solve our own problems.

- Is the West afraid of Putin?

- In no case. There is only one thing, because of which the West is so cautious about Russia - nuclear power. But this nuclear power is a bluff. There is enough information about what strategic missiles are in service in Russia. After all, they are all made in Ukraine, and their term has expired long ago.

- You said that Putin is a walking political corpse. Is this true?

- This is true. Recently, his entourage comfortably traveled to the West, and now we see personal sanctions against them. And at any time, each of them can lose their billions. The golden snuffbox in Russian history played a key role, and I think that it will play its role in the future. Now the presence of Putin in power is unprofitable for all.

- And what about the military-industrial complex?

- The military-industrial complex is dying and is in the same crisis as everything else. I recently saw a satellite image of the Stalingrad Tractor Plant. Now it looks more terrible than in the spring of 1943. Everything is broken up, everything is destroyed. They build a fighter plane, but in any way something does not work. They built a tank, released 10 pieces for the parade, and one broke. If everything collapses, if science, education collapses, then the military-industrial complex cannot flourish.

- And what will happen to Putin?

- His future is the darkest. The person who went to power does not have a way back. There is a meat grinder. Anyone who comes after Putin will be forced to blame everything on him. In order to survive, the new rulers will have to defiantly defame Putin. As it happened with Libyan leader, as it happened with Ceausescu. 

- What will happen to Syria and the DPRK?

- They will slowly degrade until everything is over. Now in North Korea, people’s height is several centimeters lower than in the South – due to malnutrition in several generations. And this should someday lead to the collapse of that system. They cannot be peaceful. 

- What is happening in Ukraine today, looking from the UK?

- Over the past decades, we have witnessed cataclysms that swept through Europe, especially the Central Europe. If there was a complete change in the ruling class, then these countries took the right path. I see absolutely steady progress in Poland. People just started to live well. And in those countries where the ruling class was not replaced, there is stagnation. And the most vivid example of it is Ukraine. People take to the streets, protest to death, shed their blood, and after that something changes, but not as quickly as one would like. I feel sorry for my Ukraine with such a potential, with a people who have always been free in the soul. A bond can be given freedom, money, but he will still remain a slave. Ukrainian, even barefoot, was always free. Even under serfdom, he remained free. And I'm very sorry that changes for good do not happen quickly. 

- Are there a lot of secret agents of the Russian Intelligence and the FSB in Ukraine today?

- Yes, there are a lot of them.

- And what should we do with them?

- I'm not an adviser to the great Ukrainian people on this issue. They themselves should decide what to do with them.

- Does Ukraine need Crimea and Donbas?

- It needs these territories. But if people themselves do not want to be with Ukraine, then you should have a little patience. Germany was divided. Someday there will be a reunion, but if the people of Donbas themselves do not rush to Ukraine, then you will not be successful using force. And the same applies to Crimea. 

- Which Ukrainian politicians do you like today?

- No one.

- A number of people's deputies asked P. Poroshenko to confer you the title of Hero of Ukraine. How do you feel about this?

- It's a great honor, and I would take it as the highest reward. Recently, I received an order - the highest award of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria. These are not the Chechens who love Putin and are fighting for him. I am pleased that someone appreciates my services.

- Did you see your mother after you ran away?

- Yes. When the Soviet Union fell, my father and mother were with me.

- In Russia you are twice sentenced to the first degree. After the murder of Litvinenko in the UK, is there a threat to you?

- There is always a threat. Litvinenko lived openly, with an open mind, and I take protective measures. On the other hand, I would consider death from the hands of the murderer from that side as some, perhaps, happiness, for this would be proof that I am right, that they are afraid of my books. 

- Ukraine is your homeland. Do you want to live here?

- I live in Ukraine, only every morning I wake up in Bristol. This is my homeland, yes.

- Thank you so much.

- Glory to Ukraine!

- To the heroes glory!

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